1540996_fr
Merci bcp pour le partage et pour la trace, bien utile!
Assuming the benefit of your account is to let others know the conditions, it is quite odd (entitled?) behavior to use it in order to denigrate others, to the benefit of nobody but yourself.
l’ll set the record straight on a couple points.
- I wasn’t nervous, I was angry (perhaps you have trouble recognising the correct emotion in others?).
From the image topo below, I have myself added the red dots for where I climbed, and you followed. As can be seen, you followed me, on a line that I chose, when there were other possible lines to follow. You then climbed over and directly above my partner, putting him at risk. You then verbally told me that you expected us to wait while you climbed past us (entitled?)
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We finished the route ahead of you (30mins to 1hr), and did not hold you up, discounting the bit where you were climbing on top of us.
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Our descent was not improvised, it was the one I had intended to take - before you incorrectly identified the rappel - my partners had also not wished to take the option I was going for, due to the storm, poor visibility etc, (but by the time we had wasted 3 hours on your incorrect route finding, the storm had passed, and my partners managed it just fine). Due to the fact we were all 3 by now suffering from light hypothermia, I had called the PGHM for advice as I could not afford another error, and was advised to take the route that we took, -that I had originally intended, rather than the Chere. The slope was around 45 degrees, and with the excellent snow conditions was not particularly dangerous - so long as everybody adhered to good crampon and axe technique. In firmer snow or ice it could be very dangerous indeed and should therefore be treated with utmost caution.
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Finally, my partner arrived at the refuge at 22h, 30 mins after you state you arrived. I assume that your inflation of the facts by 400% must massage your critically endangered sense of self worth.
The only bit you got correct was that I was extenuated, so congratulations on that - you guys were certainly very fit, as evidenced by the super speed you came up the approach slope at start of route.
Anyway, all’s well that ends well, I learnt a few lessons, and I hope you did too, but if you keep spending your efforts pointlessly and incorrectly inflating your own ego online to the detriment of others, I wont hold out too much hope.
yeah, that would be our trace;-)
@mchardski You seem very angry and I can understand it. I don’t know what happened up there.
Maybe it’s because of language differences but what I can say to you that his commentary was not dispising to you at all. He pointed all the mistakes he did and I thank him for this report which is very usefull.
@jdewasseige merci pour le retour d’expérience
Hey @mchardski,
Just wanted to clarify a few points. Sorry if the text did seem denigrating, as @exe mentioned it was not the objective at all, just explaining what happened that day and what we could have done better, for others later to have better info going down, the same way we explain we lost an ice axe and that it’s 100% our fault. Just had a chat with my teammates to make sure that what I described is actually what happened, at least was as objective as possible (I will try to edit the parts that might seem denigrating). Still i feel the need to respond for further readers as there is quite a lot of misunderstood/false statements in your message, but would love to have a convo with you on the phone as it seems there is a lot to unpack (just sent you my nb privately).
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By “être sur les nerfs” this was supposed to mean angry rather than nervous of the actual route which is exactly what you confirmed: we followed you and you quickly became angry on my partner, when it’s actually usual and normal to have parties advancing in parallel. We also kindly asked your teammates waiting with us at the belay if it was ok to already start following you to which they completely agreed, so no one climbed over your partner. Everyone was chill at that point.
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Unfortunately we lost an ice axe afterwards and this slowed our whole ascent, and nowhere in my text do I say it’s your fault. When we caught you up in the descent, it was only supposed to be an advice to not take the route straight to the normal route, as it seemed potentially too steep (poor visibility) and you did not seem to know if there was any crevasse or seracs. No one forced you to follow the path we took (as we were not sure of the right one either, which i kept repeating you that it was one of two possibilities), so pointing the finger on us for indicating a wrong route seem quite gross, when the only thing we tried to do there is help you. Which was the same as me going to the belay putting your rope there, letting you go first and trying to reassure your partners that were already shivering lightly.
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When we started the descent in the wrong path, we also believed it was the Chéré, when we noticed it was not, we directly told it to you and proposed to wait for you and let the rope there. As you seemed to be quite stubborn, you wanted to take your own path and find something else. We heard a lot of shouting, in a way that seemed counterproductive - maybe that’s the way you use to communicate together, but none of us had ever seen that before in the mountains, and to us, it seems that your teammates were feeling uncomfortable and scared, although we had nice and chill talks with them before at the belays.
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When you came back from the route on the way back to the hut, someone from your party was also left behind, I guess there was a reason but it def seemed like a red flag to me, and it also was for everyone at the hut watching you at that point.
I am glad you all ended up safe and would love to chat on phone or videocall if you wish, to keep this post useful and avoid generating some anger again.
Un grand merci pour votre compte rendu humble et descriptif. Bravo Ă vous trois
Exe - yeah i guess i was a bit angry and not the fault of others. Thanks for feedback
Hey ,
Thankyou for the apology, and I now accept it was not intended. It was not me that first was upset by your post, but once it was flagged to me I felt compelled to respond. I do not feel I said anything false but I can understand that we see things from separate angles and the truth can bisect. A few comments on your points.
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Your partner did not parallel climb, he followed my line, then climbed directly above one of my 2 partners after he crossed our rope. I accept conditions were good and chance of rockfall was low, but still it was not zero. It is worth again noting that the C2C line was further right, so you agreed with my line choice then decided to climb over us. The rock there was a shit tip, held together by the snow. I know yes it is common in europe, it has happened to me before and will happen again, I have been away a number of years, so I got unused to it again and reacted badly. It shouldn’t be OK frankly. But I accept it is not the UK… Finally, one needs to get the OK from the leader, not from the 2nd or 3rd.
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You said you took a long time on the route because of the lost axe AND the party in front. We did not hold you up so you could have left that bit out.
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I think there was a good part of misunderstanding here because we were 75m+ separated. I was in no way being stubborn and wanting to « take my own path », I just wanted to get off the mountain as quickly as possible, and was trying to balance various factors. Moreover I felt that you guys sent me down the abseil 1st so that you could see if it was correct, and when it was not, you were less committed and found it easier to escape, rather than doing what I suggested which was to share and swap ropes, in order to get down quicker. My feeling at the time was that you were following my line all day but when push came to shove were very willing to let me be the fall guy by testing the line, without committing yourself.
After we had done 2 x 50m raps, but you guys only 1, there was a 10minute or more gap between you guys climbing out, and me realising. In that 10 minutes I was agonising over what to do, scouring the mountain below me for anchor points. Once i realised you were climbing back out, I eventually realised you were correct to do so and followed suit (thankfully). The reticence on my part to climb out was born from fatigue, so i should have been in better shape. Once I did get out I was physically annihilated - see point 4 below.
You are correct there was some shouting from my side, on the descent. I was frustrated with some poor communication in my group on numerous occasions throughout the descent. One of my partners has a teenage daughter and I found it immensely stressful to have responsibility to look after the mother on the mountain. and being burdened with every decision for the entire day for 3 people. we got the group abilities wrong.
- Yes, that was me that got left behind by my partners. And I agree completely, it did not look good. But in the circumstances I understand.
When I came to the table in the refuge I was of a mind to thank you and congratulate you for a few points, namely climbing back out and finding a good line , which spurred me on to make the tough decision to climb out, and second, for shouting up to us about that last serac when we were descending the glacier. However you all completely blanked me. So it is not so strange that I took your post badly.
Thanks for your response and I accept that you did not intend to denigrate, although perhaps in future you could be more alert to how the written word can seem different to a conversation, depending on who is reading it.
stay safe.